从实习生到董事长

Emmanuel P. 'Manny' Maceda is chairman of the Asian-Pacific operations of Bain & Co., a global management-consulting firm with 2,700 consultants and 3,600 corporate clients in 25 countries. Mr. Maceda, now 45 years old, joined Boston-based Bain two decades ago as a summer intern. He has since served a number of roles at the firm, including global head of recruiting.

Business consulting wasn't his ambition when Mr. Maceda grew up in the Philippines, the eldest of five sons of a politician father and movie-producer mother. After earning a degree in chemical engineering from the Illinois Institute of Technology, in Chicago, Mr. Maceda took a job as a chemical engineer at DuPont Co. in the U.S. At DuPont, Mr. Maceda was exposed to different aspects of business: product development in plastics, sales and marketing.

'Once I had the chance to rotate through different jobs in the business,' he says, 'it became really interesting to me, and I thought that maybe a master's degree in business administration made sense.'

Mr. Maceda headed off to business school at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology's Sloan School of Management, still 'unaware of the existence of the management-consulting industry.' While at Sloan, he persuaded one of his role models, Jack Welch, the chairman and chief executive of General Electric Co., to speak at the school.

During the speech, a man wearing a gas mask threw a grenade-like object at Mr. Welch's feet. He stopped speaking and Mr. Maceda, correctly assessing that the object wasn't a real grenade, picked it up and walked it out of the building.

Sometime later, Mr. Welch invited Mr. Maceda to lunch and introduced him to two top GE executives, the head of corporate strategy and the head of plastics marketing, Jeffrey Immelt, now GE's chairman. Both offered Mr. Maceda jobs, but he decided to join Bain instead.

Mr. Maceda spoke with Ellen Sheng at Bain's office in Hong Kong.

WSJ: So what made you choose Bain over GE?

Mr. Maceda: Bain had a very specific brand identity already back then -- it's about looking to make change happen. It felt like the best fit for what I wanted to accomplish for my own personality.

WSJ: What are some important things you learned early on in your career?

Mr. Maceda: Most of us start early wanting to flesh out our toolkits. You're collecting experiences; I learned how to develop strategies, how to drive change in an organization, how to manage and motivate people. Then along the way, once you feel you have a foundation of capabilities it's also a very important milestone to start accepting, 'well, here are the things I know I'm not as good at.' The recognition is very important. It's needed in our team-oriented culture because then you know where to ask for help.

I've been in this career and company for almost 20 years, but it's only in the last five years I've gotten a lot more comfortable and no longer worry about adding yet another skill.

WSJ: What's one thing you emphasize to new recruits?

Mr. Maceda: The big picture. Sometimes, new recruits just worry about what happens in the next week, or in the next month. Or what happens to the thing they are personally working on. To have an awareness of how this ultimately swings to the real goal -- to increase the value of your client -- that's something that I'd like hard-wired into every recruit that comes in.

WSJ: Some people immediately grasp this and some never do, but is it something that can be taught?

Mr. Maceda: I think so. Like most things, there are subsets that come in just thinking that way -- hopefully if we're doing things right in our recruiting process and in our assessment processes. But there might be folks who on the other extreme will never get it; but there is a chunk in the middle for whom the light bulb will go on at some point through the right combination of training.

WSJ: People say Asia is very hierarchical, with more formal job roles and less flexibility. How do you create that flat management structure?

Mr. Maceda: By being aware of the cultural nuances and managing them. We haven't seen it be that much of an issue. We have a consistent management hierarchy philosophy that's pretty global and fairly flat. I am a very typical manager inside Bain in that 75% of my time is still spent doing a client job.

WSJ: Have you ever had a difficult boss? What have you done about it?

Mr. Maceda: I've been fortunate to have a series of great bosses. But in my business, your other day-to-day boss is your client. I've had some challenging clients.

The toughest situation is that, rarely, you end up believing your client's objective isn't the same as yours. Sometimes you just choose not to work with someone. You don't need to accept every assignment.

If you think that what you're being asked to do isn't consistent with what the object always should be -- to drive up the value of the client company -- then you can say no. I've had a couple of those situations, but earlier in my career.

WSJ: What's the most difficult decision you've had to make as a manager?

Mr. Maceda: It's always resource allocation, what things to say no to. And often when you're saying no, you're making a trade-off between countries. Sometimes it's a trade-off between short-term and long-term. This client opportunity might be more valuable in the long run, but it'll be unprofitable or less economically compelling in the short term.

WSJ: What have you learned about making these decisions?

Mr. Maceda: It's similar to having the big picture in mind. If I apply the big picture to my firm, am I doing the set of things that will improve Bain's long-term enterprise value? Will this be the best thing for Bain in the long run?

WSJ: Do you have a favorite management book?

Mr. Maceda: I might be a bit self-serving here because as a consultant, many of the authors are my friends. So with that as a caveat I'd say 'Profit From the Core: Growth Strategy in an Era of Turbulence' [by Chris Zook and James Allen] is the one that's closest to my heart. I had a series of experiences over the years with clients in that book.

I'm not just applying it to my clients, I think it applies to my firm, too. Bain has a lot of growth left in its core, and while we have experimented with different things in the past and will continue to do so, I believe we have so much left in growing our core business.

现年45岁的伊曼纽尔•马塞达(Emmanuel P. Maceda)已是贝恩公司(Bain & Co.)亚太区的董事长了，然而20年前他刚加入公司的时候，还只是个暑期实习生。马塞达在贝恩曾担任过很多职务，包括全球招聘主管。这家全球管理咨询公司总部位于美国波士顿，在世界25个国家中拥有2,700名顾问和3,600个企业客户。

马塞达的童年在菲律宾度过，他的父亲是政治家，母亲是电影制片人，他还有四个弟弟。少年马塞达的理想并不是商业咨询。他从芝加哥的伊利诺伊理工学院(Illinois Institute of Technology)获得了化学工程学位，之后在美国的杜邦公司(DuPont Co.)谋得了一份化学工程师的工作。在杜邦，他先后从事过塑料产品开发、营销以及销售工作，从而接触到了商业活动的各个方面。

马塞达说，一旦有机会在不同的岗位上轮转，他就对商业产生了浓厚兴趣，他想也许应该读个工商管理硕士学位。

于是，马塞达进入麻省理工学院(Massachusetts Institute of Technology)斯隆商学院(Sloan School of Management)学习，不过他当时仍不知道有管理咨询这样一个行业。在斯隆商学院读书期间，他曾说服自己的偶像之一、通用电气公司(General Electric Co.)董事长兼首席执行长杰克•韦尔奇(Jack Welch)来学校讲演。

讲演中，一个戴着防毒面具的人向韦尔奇的脚边扔了一个酷似手榴弹的东西。韦尔奇因此中断了讲演，而马塞达在正确地判断出这并不是真的手榴弹之后，把它拣起来，拿着走出了大楼。

广告之后，有一天韦尔奇请马塞达吃午餐，并把他介绍给了通用电气的两位高级主管：企业战略主管和塑料营销主管。通用电气现任董事长杰夫•伊梅尔特(Jeffrey Immelt)当时担任塑料营销主管。两位主管都希望马塞达能加入自己的团队，但他最后还是决定去贝恩。

在贝恩的香港办公室中，马塞达接受了《华尔街日报》记者Ellen Sheng的采访。

《华尔街日报》（以下简称WSJ）：你为什么选择了贝恩，而没有选择通用电气？

马塞达：当时贝恩已经有了非常明确的品牌形象，也就是要寻找机会进行改变。这看起来与我的个人目标很一致。

WSJ：在早期的职业生涯中，你学到了哪些重要的东西？

马塞达：我们大部分人年纪轻轻就开始工作了，希望能藉此充实自己的“装备”。我们都在积累经验。我学会了如何制定战略，如何推动组织变革，如何对人员进行管理和激励。同时，在你觉得自己有了一定的能力后，还需要接受这样一个事实：我知道自己在这方面并不擅长。这种认知非常重要，对我们这种注重团队精神的企业文化来说必不可少，因为这样你才知道该向什么人请教。

我在这个行业、这个公司已经干了近20年，不过只是在最近5年，我才感觉到了游刃有余，而不再担心要不断增长自己的才干了。

WSJ：对于新人，你最强调的一点是什么？

马塞达：把握全局。有时，新人只是担心下一周或下个月会发生什么事情，或是只注意到手头上具体的事情。我希望每一位进来的新人都能牢记：要明白这些事情最终对我们真正的目标有何影响，也就是会如何影响客户价值的提升。

WSJ：有些人立刻就能把握这一点，而有人永远无法掌握。员工能通过学习获得这种全局观吗？

马塞达：我认为可以。和大多数事一样，有些人进来的时候就有全局观念──当然如果我们的招聘和评估程序都没问题的话。但也有一些人可能永远无法把握全局，这些人是另外一种极端情况。不过，对中间的大部分人来说，通过正确的培训组合，总有一天会茅塞顿开。

WSJ：人们都说亚洲公司里管理层级太多，职衔太正式，缺乏灵活性。你是如何引入扁平化管理结构的？

马塞达：通过了解文化上的细微差异，并对其进行管理。我们公司没有管理层级过多这样的问题。我们采取全球性、扁平化、一贯性的管理层级观。我在贝恩就是一个非常典型的经理，我75%的时间仍用于处理客户业务。

WSJ：你曾遇到过难以应付的老板吗？你是如何解决的？

马塞达：我很幸运，因为我遇到的老板都很棒。不过在我们这个行业，你的客户可以说是你的另一位老板。我倒是遇到过一些难打交道的客户。

最糟糕的情况是，你最后发现客户的目标与你的目标并不相同，当然这种情况很少见。在这种情况下有时你只能选择放弃。你可以拒绝某个咨询项目。

如果你认为交待你去做的事情与提升客户价值这一目标不相符，你可以拒绝。我碰到过几次这样的情况，不过都是早些年的事情了。

WSJ：作为一位经理，你做过的最艰难决定是什么？

马塞达：都是关于资源配置的问题，或是该在什么事情上说“不”。当你说“不”的时候，你常常需要在不同国家之间进行折衷。有时是短期和长期利益间的折衷。某个机会长期来看可能对客户更有价值，但在短期却无法盈利，或是成本过高。

WSJ：你学会了该如何做这样的决定吗？

马塞达：这和把握全局类似。如果我考虑了公司的全局，我就会想我做的事情是否会提升公司的长期价值？对公司的长远来说，这是否是最好的做法？

WSJ：你最喜欢的管理书籍是哪本？

马塞达：我是一名管理顾问，很多管理书籍的作者都是我的朋友。在这点上，我可能有点私心，我要说克里斯•祖克(Chris Zook)和詹姆斯•艾伦(James Allen)合著的《回归核心》(Profit From the Core: Growth Strategy in an Era of Turbulence)是我的最爱。书中收录了多年来我与客户打交道的一系列经验。

回归核心不仅适用于客户，我认为对我们的公司也同样适用。贝恩的核心业务仍有很大的增长空间。虽然过去我们曾进行过各种不同的尝试，今后我们仍将继续下去，但我相信我们在核心业务增长方面仍有很大潜力。